From martyn@syn.co.uk Tue Jun 17 15:48:36 2003 Received: from host213-122-113-97.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.113.97]:41142 helo=outbound.synergistic) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SHlD-0003Wp-VK for wylug-discuss@list.wylug.lug.org.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:48:36 +0100 Received: by outbound.synergistic (Postfix, from userid 99) id 5AD9B195865; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:40:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from 10.0.99.246 ( [10.0.99.246]) as user ranyardm@mcgraw by mcgraw with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:40:35 +0100 Message-ID: <1055860835.3eef2863ce8e8@mcgraw> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:40:35 +0100 From: Martyn Ranyard To: 'Nigel Metheringham' Cc: Simon Wood , "Wylug-Discuss (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] RE: [Wylug-announce] Free conference places, LinuxUser & Develope r, Birmingham, 24-26 June References: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB20879128B@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB20879128B@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 X-Originating-IP: 10.0.99.246 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Nigel, For some reason I seem to be only subscribed to -discuss at work, I'll sort that out soon, but : SSC are travelling down on the Thursday, early AM, two of us. I guess we'll do a talk or something in return for the tickets, if that's possible. I hope noone else has bagged the thursday tickets. We will be going to the expo side anyway, but yeah, it'd be great to go to some of the more interesting stuff! :-) Martyn Quoting Simon Wood : > Hi Nigel, > I shall be travelling down on Wednesday, but won't arrive till lunchtime > (13:00). So please give preference to someone who would be able to attend > more of the conference. If there's nobody else wanting a place, I would be > interested in attending the last two presentations. > > [Perhaps we could be cheeky and share passes/tickets?] > > 15:05-15:45: Scratching an Itch - What They Don't Tell You About Developing > Free Software - Jason Kitcat, Founder & Co-ordinator, Free e-democracy > Project > > 15:50-16:30: Linux on ARM-based Hardware - From Desktop to Embedded Systems - > Wookey, ARMLinux Developer > > > Is anyone else from WYLUG there on Wednesday and if so do you fancy meeting > up afterwards for a drink/chat?? > > Simon Wood. -- Martyn Ranyard Development Manager Synergistic Software (01937) 573 446 http://www.syn.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through Horde/IMP on Synergistic Software's Mail server All opinions expressed are that of the author and do not necessarily represent Synergistic Software's company policy. From Nigel.Metheringham@dev.InTechnology.co.uk Tue Jun 17 15:57:17 2003 Received: from portcullis.intechnology.co.uk ([213.146.131.10]:2738) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SHtd-0003mz-5v for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:57:17 +0100 Received: from [172.16.28.74] (port=35251 helo=intranet) by portcullis.intechnology.co.uk with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.20) id 19SHtc-0005SE-7X for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:57:16 +0100 Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Free conference places, LinuxUser & Develope r, Birmingham, 24-26 June From: Nigel Metheringham To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk In-Reply-To: <1055860835.3eef2863ce8e8@mcgraw> References: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB20879128B@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk> <1055860835.3eef2863ce8e8@mcgraw> Organization: InTechnology plc Message-Id: <1055861835.30218.23.camel@angua.localnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 Date: 17 Jun 2003 15:57:16 +0100 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: OK, since responses need to be sent in by around 5pm, its a straight case of first response to me gets it... So currently we have *left* Tues 24 - 2 tickets Wed 25 - 1 ticket -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From roger@whinlatter.uklinux.net Tue Jun 17 20:17:05 2003 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]:41635) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SLx3-0005lC-N8 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:17:05 +0100 Received: from dial81-131-59-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.131.59.232] helo=whinlatter.uklinux.net) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 19SLx0-00016J-00; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:17:03 +0100 Received: from roger by whinlatter.uklinux.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19S32N-00011y-00; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:05:19 +0100 To: "Mike Maycock" Cc: Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] multi o/s loading References: <000c01c3340c$31b80020$4c92193e@default> From: Roger Leigh Date: 17 Jun 2003 00:05:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <000c01c3340c$31b80020$4c92193e@default> Message-ID: <87el1tipxs.fsf@whinlatter.uklinux.net> Lines: 43 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: "Mike Maycock" writes: > Could anyone help . I am trying to load, RedHat, Suse, and Lindows. > > What is the best order to do this. Any order should be OK. Make sure you partition your disk correctly during the first install. Given a single HDD, I'd suggest the following: 10 MiB: /boot [hda1] [put everything else in an extended partition on hda2] 128 MiB /root [RedHat, hda5] 128 Mib /root [SuSE, hda6] 128 MiB /root [Lindows, hda7] xxx GiB everything else [LVM physical volume on hda8] Now using pvcreate/vgcreate/lvcreate, you can create /home, /usr/local as LVM logical volumes. You should also put /usr and /var partitions here for each distribution. Using LVM, you can extend any of these volumes should you run out of space, so leave some free space for future expansion (use it as swap to give it a use). Alternatively, just have a single partition for each distro, plus a common /boot. This is much simpler, but harder to share data between the distributions. When partitioning, you can have a common /home, /boot, /var/mail and swap space etc. By using a common /boot, you can have a unified kernel image for all the systems. I'd suggest GRUB for booting--make sure you install it onto the /boot boot record and make this the active partition. You'll need to manage the kernel images manually, so one distro doesn't mess things up. HTH, Roger -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 available on public keyservers From mike@skillstraining.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jun 18 16:40:07 2003 Received: from cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.21]:2872) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Sf2d-0002Q0-9K for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:40:07 +0100 Received: from modem-948.barrelled.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.143.180] helo=default) by cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 19Sf2c-0000kr-3g for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:40:06 +0100 Message-ID: <004101c335af$c27fa500$b885193e@default> From: "Mike Maycock" To: Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:39:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable x-plaintext: Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative content-type: text/plain Subject: [Wylug-discuss] New Business venture !!! Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Any opinions will be welcome. I have probably posted this to the wrong board,,, the moderator has directe= d me to this forum. ( thanks for your time ) ................................................................. My plan is to retail PC's loaded with Suse/ Redhat/ Lindows. My dilemma is, in light of the SCO vs IBM and associated spat, would it be = wise to embark on this business venture at this time???? My personal opinion is that these machines would represent very good value(= providing no legal actions come my way) Further is would give the general public a choice of O/S's. Regards Mike The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are intended for the named= recipient only, if you have received this e-mail in error please delete it= immediately, do not copy,print or pass to a third party. Mobile 07721434651 Office 01536 484421 mike@b2btraining.co.uk sales@b2btraining.co.uk technical@b2btraining.co.uk -- From rik@rikwade.com Wed Jun 18 19:42:45 2003 Received: from [212.50.161.99] (port=49163 helo=rikwade.com) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ShtM-0001vf-W5 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:42:44 +0100 Received: by rikwade.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6DE002250; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:42:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:42:34 +0100 From: Rik Wade To: Mike Maycock Cc: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] New Business venture !!! Message-ID: <20030618184234.GB863@mango.kingston-internet.co.uk> References: <004101c335af$c27fa500$b885193e@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <004101c335af$c27fa500$b885193e@default> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Mike Maycock wrote: > My plan is to retail PC's loaded with Suse/ Redhat/ Lindows. > > My dilemma is, in light of the SCO vs IBM and associated spat, would it be wise to embark on this business venture at this time???? Mike, You may be safer (although personally I think you'd be pretty safe with Linux) with a variant of BSD. Something like FreeBSD will run nearly every useful application that can be run on Linux. -- rik wade From davef@gbdirect.co.uk Wed Jun 18 21:36:46 2003 Received: from userem105.dsl.pipex.com ([62.188.200.105]:1550 helo=korma.gbdirect.co.uk) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Sjfi-000768-7d for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:36:46 +0100 Received: from tiger.gbdirect.co.uk (tiger.gbdirect.co.uk [192.168.0.128]) by korma.gbdirect.co.uk (8.12.3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5IKahRX000924; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:36:44 +0100 Received: from davef by tiger.gbdirect.co.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19SjSB-0001YH-00; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:22:47 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:22:47 +0100 From: Dave Fisher To: Rik Wade Cc: Mike Maycock , wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] New Business venture !!! Message-ID: <20030618202247.GB3917@gbdirect.co.uk> References: <004101c335af$c27fa500$b885193e@default> <20030618184234.GB863@mango.kingston-internet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030618184234.GB863@mango.kingston-internet.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 07:42:34PM +0100, Rik Wade wrote: > You may be safer (although personally I think you'd be pretty safe with > Linux) with a variant of BSD. Something like FreeBSD will run nearly every > useful application that can be run on Linux. Rik, You obviously haven't seen the piece that came out on Monday in which the leading SCO director in the case, said quite explicitly that they were reviewing BSD code and the BSD vs AT&T settlement with a view to 'maximising their IP value' in that area. Plus: 1. None of the BSDs are as consumer friendly as Linux 2. This is a Linux users group 3. Whatever the outcome of the SCO case there's bugger all chance that it will stop Linux. Dave From rik@rikwade.com Wed Jun 18 22:12:02 2003 Received: from [212.50.161.99] (port=49168 helo=rikwade.com) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SkDp-0001tZ-Jj for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:12:01 +0100 Received: by rikwade.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 090152254; Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:11:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:11:51 +0100 From: Rik Wade To: Dave Fisher Cc: Mike Maycock , wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] New Business venture !!! Message-ID: <20030618211151.GC863@mango.kingston-internet.co.uk> References: <004101c335af$c27fa500$b885193e@default> <20030618184234.GB863@mango.kingston-internet.co.uk> <20030618202247.GB3917@gbdirect.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030618202247.GB3917@gbdirect.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Dave Fisher wrote: > You obviously haven't seen the piece that came out on Monday in which > the leading SCO director in the case, said quite explicitly that they > were reviewing BSD code and the BSD vs AT&T settlement with a view to > 'maximising their IP value' in that area. Yep, I must have missed that one. However, I do read some of the BSD lists and people like Theo De Raadt (OpenBSD) do spend a lot of time examining the origin of code that is used in the operating system. I understand that the grey area of intellectual property is also mixed in somewhere along the line in this case. > Plus: > > 1. None of the BSDs are as consumer friendly as Linux It depends on your definition of "consumer friendly" but there are plently of companies doing commercial support packages for *BSD as well as Linux. Just because BSD doesn't tend to have Mandrake-like variations it is much more organised and well specified as far as operating systems go. This should appeal more to the business user. > 2. This is a Linux users group And the volume of BSD chat compared with MS Windows chat is very small. > 3. Whatever the outcome of the SCO case there's bugger all chance that it > will stop Linux. I agree. I doubt the SCO case will have much long-term effect on Linux, BSD, or any other Open Source efforts. -- rik From martyn@syn.co.uk Tue Jun 24 15:01:49 2003 Received: from host213-122-30-175.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.30.175]:37914 helo=outbound.synergistic) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UoMn-00045x-9H for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:01:49 +0100 Received: by outbound.synergistic (Postfix, from userid 99) id 034D61958DF; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:02:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from 10.0.99.246 ( [10.0.99.246]) as user ranyardm@mcgraw by mcgraw with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:02:52 +0100 Message-ID: <1056463372.3ef85a0ca61ee@mcgraw> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:02:52 +0100 From: Martyn Ranyard To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 X-Originating-IP: 10.0.99.246 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Another little project Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This one's very cute, I promise : Commodore Amiga A1200 - m68k chip Can run linux fine aparrently. Has a memory expansion board on the Commodore legacy expansion bit. Has a single 16bit pcmcia slot. Want to run it as a firewall! :-) My thoughts were : 1. PCMCIA <-> USB Card and two USB <-> 10m Lan adapters (I think USB is 32bit, so likely to be impossible) 2. PCMCIA Port doubler (never seen one, as most laptops have 2 ports, it's probably possible, but where do I find one) 3. Dual Port PCMCIA Lan Card (I've seen dual-port PCI cards, but has anyone seen dual-port PCMCIA cards?) 4. Give up and use it as an XTerm for the Telly (only one nic needed then). So far I've not got anywhere with doing it as I can't find any of the parts from options 1-3. I know it would be cheaper and easier to find an old machine to do it with, but it's fun getting linux going on an alternate arch, amigas are quiet and the idea of an amiga as a firewall is just so funny! -- Martyn Ranyard Development Manager Synergistic Software (01937) 573 446 http://www.syn.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through Horde/IMP on Synergistic Software's Mail server All opinions expressed are that of the author and do not necessarily represent Synergistic Software's company policy. From news@cabal.org.uk Tue Jun 24 15:40:54 2003 Received: from vindaloo.cabal.org.uk ([217.169.21.29]:41207 ident=mail) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UoyZ-0007WE-5G for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:40:51 +0100 Received: from news by vindaloo.cabal.org.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19UoyU-0006rU-00 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:40:46 +0100 To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Path: not-for-mail From: abuse@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Newsgroups: newsgate.wylug-discuss Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Another little project Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:40:46 +0000 (UTC) Organization: vindaloo.cabal.org.uk news system, Pudsey LS28, UK Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <1056463372.3ef85a0ca61ee@mcgraw> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.vindaloo.cabal.org.uk X-Trace: vindaloo.cabal.org.uk 1056465646 26377 127.0.0.1 (24 Jun 2003 14:40:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:40:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: abuse@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Martyn Ranyard wrote: > This one's very cute, I promise : > Commodore Amiga A1200 - m68k chip A stock Amiga 1200 has a 68EC020 processor. That's a cost-reduced 68020 CPU with only 24 address lines. The 68020 has no MMU or FPU. > Can run linux fine aparrently. No chance without a MMU. You need an acclerator board with a *full* 68030, '040, or '060. (i.e. the 68EC030 that shows up on some boards is not sufficient). > Has a memory expansion board on the Commodore legacy expansion bit. If that is only a memory expansion and not an accelerator board, forget it. > Has a single 16bit pcmcia slot. Note, the design predates PCMCIA and doesn't follow the full spec. Also note that it will *not* drive 32 bit cards. > Want to run it as a firewall! :-) > My thoughts were : [some mad ideas] There is no way you're going to usefully get two NICs into that unless you spend more on the machine than you should, e.g. by acquiring PCI adaptors and tower cases, etc. It's possibly also worth noting that the Amiga's serial port doesn't have a FIFO and the OS tends to disable serial interrupts for extended periods, so speeds above 38.4kb/s are generally not possible. There *are* third-party serial cards (either PCMCIA or internal on the "clock port") that will give you 16550 ports if you require them. > 4. Give up and use it as an XTerm for the Telly (only one nic needed > then). I've been using the Amiga for years, and I've yet to find a terminal emulation (that runs under AmigaOS) that was fast and reliable. > So far I've not got anywhere with doing it as I can't find any of the > parts from options 1-3. I know it would be cheaper and easier to find an > old machine to do it with, but it's fun getting linux going on an > alternate arch, amigas are quiet and the idea of an amiga as a firewall is > just so funny! In general, while the Amiga *can* run Linux under certain conditions, it's not generally worth the effort. Linux is a lot more resource-hungry than the native OS and has somewhat different expectations of the hardware than the Amiga provides. If you're wanting to play on an obscure system, a reasonably high-end Archimedes might suit you better. OTOH, I was considering using one of my A1200s (or maybe the CDTV) as a nameserver, but that was going to be a port of BIND to AmigaOS and a PPP link to a port on my x86 firewall box. (Why, yes, I know way too much useless stuff about the Amiga.) -- PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key From jc@ljchurch.co.uk Tue Jun 24 16:03:40 2003 Received: from jordan.timewarp.co.uk ([217.149.108.9]:52359) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UpKe-00013S-79 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:03:40 +0100 Received: from adsl962.timewarp.co.uk ([217.149.96.2] helo=ljchurch.co.uk) by jordan.timewarp.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #7) id 19UpKa-0002Xe-00; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:03:36 +0100 Received: from julianscomputer ([192.168.200.2]) by ljchurch.co.uk with SMTP (Mailtraq/1.1.4.1123) id LJCH71208B22D; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:03:32 +0100 To: Peter Corlett , wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Another little project Reply-To: jc@ljchurch.co.uk References: <1056463372.3ef85a0ca61ee@mcgraw> Message-ID: From: Julian Church MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:00:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2880 X-Hops: 1 X-Scanner: exiscan *19UpKa-0002Xe-00*lbYzSl7Zk8o* http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/ content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:40:46 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett wrote: > Martyn Ranyard wrote: >> This one's very cute, I promise : >> Commodore Amiga A1200 - m68k chip > > A stock Amiga 1200 has a 68EC020 processor. That's a cost-reduced 68020 > CPU > with only 24 address lines. The 68020 has no MMU or FPU. > >> Can run linux fine aparrently. > > No chance without a MMU. You need an acclerator board with a *full* > 68030, > '040, or '060. (i.e. the 68EC030 that shows up on some boards is not > sufficient). > My first experience running Linux was Debian on a 68030 Mac (a IISi) and it absolutely c-r-a-w-l-e-d. BTW, If you really want to re-use a low-end system as a firewall, you might want to have a look at the LEAF project http://leaf.sourceforge.net. It's i386 only, but the lowest practical spec is really low; roughly a 66MHz 486 with 16MB. cheers Julian -- jc@ljchurch.co.uk www.ljchurch.co.uk From news@cabal.org.uk Tue Jun 24 16:09:58 2003 Received: from vindaloo.cabal.org.uk ([217.169.21.29]:41248 ident=mail) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UpQk-0001VH-FD for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:09:58 +0100 Received: from news by vindaloo.cabal.org.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19UpQj-00073O-00 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:09:57 +0100 To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Path: not-for-mail From: abuse@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Newsgroups: newsgate.wylug-discuss Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Another little project Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC) Organization: vindaloo.cabal.org.uk news system, Pudsey LS28, UK Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <1056463372.3ef85a0ca61ee@mcgraw> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.vindaloo.cabal.org.uk X-Trace: vindaloo.cabal.org.uk 1056467397 26919 127.0.0.1 (24 Jun 2003 15:09:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:09:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: abuse@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Julian Church wrote: > Peter Corlett wrote: [...] >> No chance without a MMU. You need an acclerator board with a *full* >> 68030, '040, or '060. (i.e. the 68EC030 that shows up on some boards is >> not sufficient). Firstly, please don't Cc: me directly with replies. I do read the list after all, and a direct response (which gets read first) is confusing as it looks as if you've taken the topic off-list. > My first experience running Linux was Debian on a 68030 Mac (a IISi) and > it absolutely c-r-a-w-l-e-d. I hear the Mac's bus interface is pretty rough, which would be some of the problem. I've got Debian running on an A1200 with an '030 accelerator, and an A4000/040 and neither are too bad. The A4000 is possibly worse, due to the lousy design of the A3640 CPU board. > BTW, If you really want to re-use a low-end system as a firewall, you > might want to have a look at the LEAF project http://leaf.sourceforge.net. > It's i386 only, but the lowest practical spec is really low; roughly a > 66MHz 486 with 16MB. That's not exactly low-end. My firewall proxy box is slower than that... -- Chat Up, Put Down #10 HE: Shall we go see a movie? SHE: I've already seen it. From hick@gink.org Tue Jun 24 18:43:04 2003 Received: from stum.gink.org ([62.25.64.84]:60478) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Urou-0005CN-IC for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:43:04 +0100 Received: from hick (helo=localhost) by stum.gink.org with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Uros-0005jI-00 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:43:02 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:43:02 +0100 (BST) From: gARetH baBB To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Another little project In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1056463372.3ef85a0ca61ee@mcgraw> MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Peter Corlett wrote: > > 66MHz 486 with 16MB. > > That's not exactly low-end. My firewall proxy box is slower than that... Our wireless router used to be a 486sx33 - Lawson's got that machine now, still as a wireless router. It's actually a fake 486, still Intel but some embedded design which got let loose in some laptops. From danielwalker@fastmail.fm Tue Jun 24 20:17:33 2003 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]:3394) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UtIK-0008C8-Rz for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:17:32 +0100 Received: from peopleinblack.demon.co.uk ([80.177.119.30] helo=peopleinblack) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19UtII-000Phs-0V for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:17:30 +0100 From: Daniel Walker Reply-To: danielwalker@fastmail.fm To: "WYLUG-discuss" Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Another little project Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:19:29 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <1056463372.3ef85a0ca61ee@mcgraw> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Description: clearsigned data Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306242019.36915.danielwalker@fastmail.fm> content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 June 2003 3:40 pm, Peter Corlett wrote: > No chance without a MMU. You need an acclerator board with a *full* 68030, > '040, or '060. (i.e. the 68EC030 that shows up on some boards is not > sufficient). > Am I showing my ignorance by suggesting ucLinux here? Isn't that designed to run on non-MMU equipped processors? http://home.tvd.be/cr26864/Linux/68000/ seems to be the home. It does look rather dead, however. Dan Dan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE++KRGC2kcpPIIs7gRApERAJ4qgyzVpIE+IG17m4GVX/0SrSAnhgCfaQ8w Zk/x/ZsUtQwy/h+9eYXz7lo= =gJSz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Simon.Wood@pace.co.uk Thu Jun 26 12:42:07 2003 Received: from gateway.pace.co.uk ([195.44.197.250]:20281 helo=animal.pace.co.uk) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19VV8h-0008Ke-3b for wylug-discuss@list.wylug.lug.org.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:42:07 +0100 Received: from exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk (exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk [136.170.144.5]) by animal.pace.co.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5QBg4wr005843 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:42:04 +0100 Received: by exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:42:04 +0100 Message-ID: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB2087912B0@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk> From: Simon Wood To: "Wylug-Discuss (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:42:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [Wylug-discuss] VCD creation - wrong aspect ratio. Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, I've ripped/encoded/burnt a VCD with a 16:9 aspect ratio and all is happy u= ntil Linux (VLC and Xine). However if I play the VCD on a cheapo hardware p= lay, or with a Windows application, the picture is shown as 4:3 ratio - res= ulting in tall thin people. I used Kino to grab/edit/output mpeg stream and mkvcdfs to build the VCD im= age. Any suggestions as to what I might have missed to get the aspect ratio righ= t? Simon. From news@cabal.org.uk Thu Jun 26 12:53:35 2003 Received: from vindaloo.cabal.org.uk ([217.169.21.29]:44561 ident=mail) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19VVJm-0001Un-M9 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:53:34 +0100 Received: from news by vindaloo.cabal.org.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19VVJm-0006Et-00 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:53:34 +0100 To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Path: not-for-mail From: abuse@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Newsgroups: newsgate.wylug-discuss Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] VCD creation - wrong aspect ratio. Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:53:34 +0000 (UTC) Organization: vindaloo.cabal.org.uk news system, Pudsey LS28, UK Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB2087912B0@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.vindaloo.cabal.org.uk X-Trace: vindaloo.cabal.org.uk 1056628414 23889 127.0.0.1 (26 Jun 2003 11:53:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@vindaloo.cabal.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:53:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: abuse@cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Simon Wood wrote: [...] > I've ripped/encoded/burnt a VCD with a 16:9 aspect ratio and all is happy > until Linux (VLC and Xine). However if I play the VCD on a cheapo hardware > play, or with a Windows application, the picture is shown as 4:3 ratio - > resulting in tall thin people. > I used Kino to grab/edit/output mpeg stream and mkvcdfs to build the VCD > image. Any suggestions as to what I might have missed to get the aspect > ratio right? The aspect ratio of VCD is 4:3. You can set the 16:9 flag in the file if you like, but it'll be ignored by conformant players. It looks like the Linux applications are non-conformant in that they support 16:9. You are going to have to letterbox and/or crop the 16:9 video to fit a 4:3 display. This will reduce the quality, but that's VCD for you. -- Did you know? #14 Elephants are the only animals that cannot jump. From David.ALLEN@eur.crowncork.com Mon Jun 30 11:19:46 2003 Received: from relay2.bt.net ([194.72.6.62]:57715) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19WvlB-0003ix-OX for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:19:45 +0100 Received: from mailhost.eur.crowncork.com ([213.120.71.21] helo=a629uk22.eur.crowncork.com) by relay2.bt.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Wvkz-0003Q1-00 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:19:33 +0100 Received: by A629UK22 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:19:32 +0100 Message-ID: From: "ALLEN, David" To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:19:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a global find and replace? Ta. David CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you. From lee@leeevans.org Mon Jun 30 11:24:34 2003 Received: from outbound1.mail.legend.net.uk ([212.69.225.88]:60731) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Wvpq-0004eJ-HC for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:24:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 6498 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 11:30:45 +0100 Received: from scanner.mail.legend.net.uk (HELO scanner3.mail.legend.net.uk) (212.69.225.93) by outbound1.mail.legend.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 11:30:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 30425 invoked by uid 404); 30 Jun 2003 11:24:31 +0100 Received: from lee@leeevans.org by scanner3.mail.legend.net.uk by uid 401 with qmail-scanner-1.15 ( Clear:. Processed in 0.037187 secs); 30 Jun 2003 10:24:31 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lee@leeevans.org via scanner3.mail.legend.net.uk X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.15 (Clear:. Processed in 0.037187 secs) Received: from smtp0.mail.legend.net.uk (212.69.225.80) by scanner.mail.legend.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 11:24:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 25579 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2003 11:24:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO leelap) (212.69.243.251) by smtp0.mail.legend.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Jun 2003 11:24:32 +0100 From: "Lee Evans" To: "'ALLEN, David'" , Subject: RE: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:24:31 +0100 Message-ID: <953E0CDD2787A94A95AA2ECE337E136404B1E7@vital-exchange.vitalintranet2.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Rating: smtp0.mail.legend.net.uk 1.6.2 0/2500/N X-Spam-Rating: scanner.mail.legend.net.uk 1.6.2 0/0/N X-Spam-Rating: outbound1.mail.legend.net.uk 1.6.2 0/2500/N X-Apparently-To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: :%s/find/replace/g Regards lee > -----Original Message----- > From: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk > [mailto:wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk] On Behalf Of ALLEN, David > Sent: 30 June 2003 11:19 > To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk > Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question > > > Hi, > > Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a > global find and replace? > > Ta. > > David > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for > the confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are > not the intended recipient or person responsible for > delivering it to the intended recipient, you have received > this communication in error and must not distribute or copy > it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender > immediately by return e-mail and delete this communication. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Wylug-discuss mailing list > Wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk > http://list.wylug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wylu> g-discuss > From james@microcosmos.co.uk Mon Jun 30 11:24:59 2003 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]:56158) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19WvqE-0004m7-TT for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:24:58 +0100 Received: from mail.microcosmos.co.uk ([80.7.77.70]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20030630102457.JITI21249.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@mail.microcosmos.co.uk>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:24:57 +0100 Received: by mail.microcosmos.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 504) id 9421653861; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:25:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (extreme.microcosmos.co.uk [192.168.1.250]) by mail.microcosmos.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A54053860; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:25:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from lln-wsgt-prx3.leedslearning.net (lln-wsgt-prx3.leedslearning.net [194.74.199.58]) by www.microcosmos.co.uk (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:24:24 +0100 Message-ID: <1056968664.3f000fd8bd708@www.microcosmos.co.uk> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:24:24 +0100 From: James Holden To: "ALLEN, David" Cc: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 194.74.199.58 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_IMP version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: David, :%s/text_to_find/text_to_replace_with/g James Quoting "ALLEN, David" : > Hi, > > Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a global find and > replace? > > Ta. > > David > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the > confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended > recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, > you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or > copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender > immediately by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Wylug-discuss mailing list > Wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk > http://list.wylug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wylug-discuss > -- James Holden, Leeds, United Kingdom james@microcosmos.co.uk http://www.microcosmos.co.uk/ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From chris.davies@bcs.org.uk Mon Jun 30 11:28:54 2003 Received: from cmagate.cmagroup.co.uk ([195.200.158.239]:25126 helo=moldev.cmagroup.co.uk) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Wvtq-0005hO-BT for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:28:46 +0100 Received: from IA005348 ([10.1.20.205]) by moldev.cmagroup.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h5UASFF18967 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:28:17 +0100 From: "Chris Davies" To: Subject: RE: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:28:15 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday, June 30, 2003 11:19 AM, David.ALLEN@eur.crowncork.com wrote: > Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a global > find and replace? Shouldn't this be on the HELP list? :%s/old/new/g Chris -- Chris Davies, Technical Solutions Consultant, Manheim Auctions (MIS) Tel. 0113 393-2004 Fax. 07092 312171 Mobile 07778 199069 From David.ALLEN@eur.crowncork.com Mon Jun 30 11:40:02 2003 Received: from relay2.bt.net ([194.72.6.62]:60979) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Ww4o-0007eg-6D for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:40:02 +0100 Received: from mailhost.eur.crowncork.com ([213.120.71.21] helo=a629uk22.eur.crowncork.com) by relay2.bt.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Ww4d-0003dA-00 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:39:51 +0100 Received: by A629UK22 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:39:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: "ALLEN, David" To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: RE: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:39:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Thanks for the quick replies! David -----Original Message----- From: ALLEN, David [mailto:David.ALLEN@eur.crowncork.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:19 AM To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question Hi, Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a global find and replace? Ta. David CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Wylug-discuss mailing list Wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk http://list.wylug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wylug-discuss CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you. From philipwyett@dsl.pipex.com Mon Jun 30 11:46:57 2003 Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net ([62.241.160.73]:51549) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19WwBV-0000lj-9K for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:46:57 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (usera183.dsl.pipex.com [62.188.48.183]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149BC160000C5 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:46:56 +0100 (BST) Subject: RE: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question From: Philip Wyett Reply-To: philipwyett@dsl.pipex.com To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Message-Id: <1056970104.2560.11.camel@rh9> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 30 Jun 2003 11:48:24 +0100 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit x-plaintext: signature.asc of type application/pgp-signature deleted content-type: text/plain; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: -- On Mon, 2003-06-30 at 11:28, Chris Davies wrote: > On Monday, June 30, 2003 11:19 AM, David.ALLEN@eur.crowncork.com wrote: > > Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a global > > find and replace? > > Shouldn't this be on the HELP list? > :%s/old/new/g > Hi, If you wish to be a little careful, you can use confirmation of each change by adding 'c' e.g. :%s/old/new/gc This will search for 'old' and stop highlighting or underlining each occurrence of 'old' with carets '^'. To make the change hit the 'y' or to not and move onto the next 'n' etc. until your done. Regards Phil -- AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) or Yahoo Messenger: PhilipWyett Email: philipwyett@dsl.pipex.com Website: http://www.philipwyett.dsl.pipex.com Public key: http://www.philipwyett.dsl.pipex.com/gpg/public_key.txt -- -- Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part [ signature.asc of type application/pgp-signature deleted ] -- From paul.branston@perseus-cc.com Mon Jun 30 11:38:10 2003 Received: from host81-130-213-15.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.130.213.15]:33737 helo=arwen.perseus-cc.com) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Ww2z-0007Ep-Gm for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:38:09 +0100 Received: from arwen.perseus-cc.com (apb@localhost.perseus-cc.com [IPv6:::1]) by arwen.perseus-cc.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UAbtix016134; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:37:55 +0100 (BST) Received: (from apb@localhost) by arwen.perseus-cc.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5UAbt0W017709; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:37:55 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:37:54 +0100 From: Paul Branston To: "ALLEN, David" Cc: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Vi question Message-ID: <20030630103754.GA14964@rannoch.demon.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 11:19:27AM +0100, ALLEN, David wrote: > Hi, > > Here is a question for all you Vi experts; How do you do a global find and > replace? > > Ta. > > David > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the > confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended > recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, > you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or > copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender > immediately by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Wylug-discuss mailing list > Wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk > http://list.wylug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wylug-discuss :%s/pattern/replacement/g % for do this on every line ( swap % for 1,10 to do the replacement on lines 1 - 10 inclusive) g replace the pattern more than once on each line that matches -- /* * Paul Branston * Unix Consultant, Perseus Computer Consultants Ltd. * Mobile: 07860 447931 * Leeds office: 0113 2635584 * Office: 0845 0513970 */ From ioannis18@hotmail.com Mon Jun 30 14:57:28 2003 Received: from law9-f4.law9.hotmail.com ([64.4.9.4]:1356 helo=hotmail.com) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Wz9r-000235-UN for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:57:28 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:57:10 -0700 Received: from 194.80.32.10 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:57:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [194.80.32.10] X-Originating-Email: [ioannis18@hotmail.com] From: "yannakis udontwanttoknow" To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Bcc: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:57:10 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jun 2003 13:57:10.0519 (UTC) FILETIME=[803F3070:01C33F0F] content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; format=flowed Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Free/ Open Source Software Survey Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello everybody, my name is Ioannis Belouris. I am studying at Lancaster University, UK, where I am doing an MSc in IT, Management and Organisational Change. At the moment I am doing a research project on why people participate in Free/Open Source software projects. I am basing my project on a questionnaire survey. If you are contributing to an open source code I would therefore be grateful, if you would complete my questionnaire which is located at: http://www.lancs.ac.uk/postgrad/belouris/os.htm Thanking you in anticipation, Ioannis Belouris _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From Richard.Dixon@herhis.nhs.uk Thu Jul 10 13:41:45 2003 Received: from mail4.nhs.uk ([194.72.23.241]:37269) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19aak4-0001Ov-Tg for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:41:45 +0100 Received: from hn-ext by mail4.nhs.uk (Sendmail 8.8.8) with esmtp id 19aaju-0003ls-00; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:41:34 +0100 Received: from relay.nhs.uk (194.62.42.141) by relayint1.nhs.uk (Syntegra-I1 6.5.016) id 3EDCC574005BCA01 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:41:33 +0100 Received: from erhaexchange.xherhis.nhs.uk (194.155.243.45) by relay.nhs.uk (Syntegra-1 7.0.008) (authenticated as smtp_erhha_nhs_uk@es2002.nhs.uk) id 3F0D578D00002DA0 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:41:33 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:41:30 +0100 Message-ID: <50F5EF2EA93ED44C811CFDD24E10E0FE2E2C03@ERHAEXCHANGE> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Themes for future introductory talks Thread-Index: AcNG3n3/7ollu3FMRlK12RkIzGQHKgAAQLUw From: "Dixon, Richard" To: content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Themes for future introductory talks Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Sadly I missed the all of the introductory talks, but would appreciate a th= eme for half-baked users of Linux like myself. I am currently using a HD i= nstall of Knoppix (Debian, Open Office, KDE etc) and have tried to use this= a base for more adventurous things like MySQL. Sadly, I could not get the= damn RPM file to load, but had no time to follow up the issues, since I ha= ve no official endorsement within the NHS to use Linux and this is largely = a lunchtime hobby, using salvaged kit. I suppose a beginners tweaks theme for Distro-users like me would be good, = covering things like: dependencies and kernel upgrades etc. Richard Dixon Principal Information Analyst Health Informatics Service (HIS) Health House, Grange Park Lane, Willerby Telephone: 01482 672006 Fax: 01482 672014 =09This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and inten= ded solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are address= ed. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Jackson [mailto:jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk] Sent: 10 July 2003 13:15 To: WYLUG Announce list Subject: [Wylug-announce] Next Meeting - Monday 14th July 2003 Greetings All, I understand the last meeting was a success. Thanks to Aaron and Dave, and = Mark for "room service" :-) So that's the last of the Introductory series of talks. So what did people = think - was it worth doing? Should we do a "series" again? If so on what li= nking themes, and aimed at who? Ideas to wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk or to the pub after monday's meeting. This coming monday (14th July) we have talks on "Power Shell Usage: 'Bash' = Tips & Tricks" by smylers and "Creating a Bootable CD" by Owen Le Blanc. Se= e http://www.wylug.org.uk/ for more details. A reminder that the August 11th meeting is the informal summer holiday meet= ing, in the Victoria Pub. I'm hoping to get some food laid on, but it's not= organised yet. I'm sure some commercial outfit said they'd spansor this bu= t I forget who said that - mail me please. Also a couple of people have suggested we have a showing of "Revolution OS"= film ( http://www.revolution-os.com/ ) so I plan to organise that for some= time after the start of the University term in October. Mark Spink has had = an idea for a different WYLUG evening, and we will be discussing that down = at the Victoria pub after the meeting - all welcome. cheers Jim =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D West Yorkshire Linux Users Group (WYLUG) Meetings are free and open to anyone to attend. ---- ------ Monday 14th July 2003 6:30 pm for Tea/Coffee and chat 7 pm prompt for speakers Power Shell Usage: 'Bash' Tips & Tricks Smylers GBDirect Question and Answer Session Break Creating a Bootable CD Owen Le Blanc Manchester Computing Centre WYLUG Venue: Active Learning Lab., (Level 9, near staircase 2) E.C. Stoner Building (aka Physics/Admin) University of Leeds Woodhouse Lane Leeds UK for location of Leeds University & Campus Map see http://www.leeds.ac.uk/visitors/getting_here.htm http://www.leeds.ac.uk/campus/physa-1.html http://www.leeds.ac.uk/campus_map/campus.htm "Informal" Discussions Continue after the meeting at the Victoria Pub on Great George St. at the back of the Town Hall. _______________________________________________ Wylug-announce mailing list Wylug-announce@wylug.org.uk http://list.wylug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wylug= -announce From d.allinson@virgin.net Thu Jul 17 01:11:26 2003 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]:51395) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19cwMn-0004Za-Si for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:11:25 +0100 Received: from virgin.net ([80.0.9.116]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20030717001124.PLQG16215.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@virgin.net> for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:11:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3F15E88E.1A55C6E5@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:06:38 +0100 From: Damian Allinson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Themes for future introductory talks Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello All, I only recently discovered WYLUG so apologies if this has been covered already. I am involved in embedded systems design and would be interested in hearing about real world experiences of embedding Linux in a commercial or industrial product (technical and political aspects). Also from the real time point of view, has anybody switched to Linux from the proprietary RTOSes and experiences in doing so. Damian Allinson From bill@commedia.org.uk Thu Jul 17 11:21:28 2003 Received: from mail.cma.commedia.org.uk ([195.10.228.40]:3037 ident=postfix) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d5tA-00074X-Jw for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:21:28 +0100 Received: from commedia.org.uk (unknown [195.10.228.36]) by mail.cma.commedia.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A63CB115 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:21:25 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3F1678BA.3030004@commedia.org.uk> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:21:46 +0100 From: Bill Best User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Revolution OS - The Showroom, Saturday 26 July at 4.00pm Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Sheffield Indymedia [1] has organised a showing of Revolution OS [2] at the Showroom [3]: "REVOLUTION OS": the inside story of the computer hackers who rebelled against the proprietary software model and Microsoft to create GNU/Linux and the Open Source movement. Microsoft fears GNU/Linux, and rightly so. GNU/Linux and the Open Source & Free Software movements arguably represent the greatest threat to Microsoft's way of life. Shot in cinemascope on 35mm film in Silicon Valley, REVOLUTION OS tracks down the key movers and shakers behind Linux, and finds out how and why Linux became such a potent threat. REVOLUTION OS features interviews with Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, Bruce Perens, Eric Raymond, Brian Behlendorf, Michael Tiemann, Larry Augustin, Frank Hecker, and Rob Malda. The Showroom -- Saturday 26 July at 4.00pm Tickets =A33:00/=A32:00 (concs) [1] http://sheffield.indymedia.org.uk/ [2] http://www.revolution-os.com/ [3] http://www.showroom.org.uk/ From dmspink@aria.uklinux.net Thu Jul 17 14:01:55 2003 Received: from s4.uklinux.net ([80.84.72.14]:52352 helo=mail2.uklinux.net) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19d8OR-000133-Ew for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:01:55 +0100 Received: from localhost (s4.uklinux.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.uklinux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0FD409FDC for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:01:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail2.uklinux.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (s4.uklinux.net [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with ESMTP id 06338-08 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:01:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from opera.localdomain (unknown [212.69.247.230]) by mail2.uklinux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34708409FAF for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:01:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Spink To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:02:04 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307171402.04573.dmspink@aria.uklinux.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Revolution OS Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jim Jackson and I have been planning to show: Revolution OS for FREE at the October WYLUG meeting, to coinside with the student return at the University to attract new members. Mark Spink From roger@whinlatter.uklinux.net Thu Jul 17 21:56:31 2003 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]:34481) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19dFnj-0002AI-2E for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:56:31 +0100 Received: from dial81-135-6-115.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.135.6.115] helo=whinlatter.uklinux.net) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 19dFng-0002gM-00; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:56:29 +0100 Received: from roger by whinlatter.uklinux.net with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19dFfo-0001bE-00; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:48:20 +0100 To: Damian Allinson Cc: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Themes for future introductory talks References: <3F15E88E.1A55C6E5@virgin.net> From: Roger Leigh Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:48:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3F15E88E.1A55C6E5@virgin.net> (Damian Allinson's message of "Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:06:38 +0100") Message-ID: <87n0fcvq0b.fsf@whinlatter.uklinux.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Damian Allinson writes: Hi Damian, [This is quite a long post. It's mainly a mishmash of my ideas about my own future embedded development work. Any comments are welcome!] > I am involved in embedded systems design and would be interested in > hearing about real world experiences of embedding Linux in a commercial > or industrial product (technical and political aspects). I'm currently starting to get involved in this sort of work. I've recently started a job working as a coder/tech support for a company producing EPOS (electronic point-of-sale) machines for retailers. The software, while very good at what it does, is DOS-based and the nature of the language it is written in (a 4GL), makes it difficult to add new features and maintenance takes much longer than a more modern language would require. The company want to move to a more modern platform in the future, going to an embedded board and a touch-screen display. Technical aspects: The main issue is re-rewriting the application from scratch. One possibility was going to Windows (CE), and upgrading to the latest version of the 4GL (now re-written in Delphi), which would mean porting the existing codebase to the new version of the language, so re-writing would not be necessary. However, this is not a possibility, since WinCE for ARM would require a full rewrite anyway (the 4GL is ix86-only). This moved Linux/ARM to the top place--since rewriting from scratch is unavoidable. Given that a rewrite is necessary, this allows us to choose the most appropriate hardware platform and OS. We would like to have the ability to run the program on a standard i386 Windows9x OS as well as Linux and the embedded hardware. The candidates we have looked at are: Databases: * PostgreSQL running natively on whatever platform we need (the forthcoming 7.4 stable release will run natively on Windows). * MySQL (this has the disadvantage of being pants for "serious" usage, due to its nonexistent/immature support of many of the features we would require such as transactions, views, cursors, stored procedures and strict referential integrity, amongst others). Asyncronous replication would also be very nice to have, which one of the PG replication projects supports. Languages and libraries: * Java, using the native Java graphics toolkit, using JDBC to talk to Postgres. Advantages: The binaries will run anywhere. Disadvantages: I haven't used Java before; JVM quality; API stability; ?lack of libraries?; performance issues. * C, using GTK+/libglade and libpq to talk to Postgres. Advantages: Simple interface; small and fast executables (my test program was just 8 KiB!); Glade can greatly simplify interface construction and can autoconnect signals, reducing code size. Disadvantages: GObject is complex and callbacks are not type-safe; difficult to derive new objects; callbacks are not class methods (i.e. state-containing). * C++, using Gtkmm/libglademm and libpqxx to talk to Postgres. Advantages: Signal handlers are type-safe, but need to be connected manually (Glade signal autoconnection isn't implemented); Gtkmm allows easy derivation of widgets which is very difficult in GTK+; Derived widgets can hold state information and signal handlers can be class methods. Disadvantages: Initially more complex than GTK+; Signals must be manually connected. C++ is a much more complex language than C. * Both the C and C++ applications and the respective libraries can be built on Windows using Cygwin/MinGW, at least in theory (untested). Whether or not it is actually chosen, I have been learning GTK+ and Gtkmm, and have knocked up some simple programs in each. I'll be putting together a demo prototype of the new system using C++/Gtkmm/Postgres (my preferred combination). If anyone is interested in getting into GTK+ using the C or C++ bindings, I'll probably be competent enough to give a talk on this sometime later in the year. Semi-political aspects: * Choice of language! I tend to favour C or C++, having used C extensively, and I have been learning C++ over the last year. I've only ever coded for POSIX/SUS systems. My boss has a background using MS technologies like VB, as well as JavaScript and DOS 4GL languages, and favours Java. I'm not sure how over-hyped Java is--it's not something you come across much doing free software development, so I'm not sure of its capabilities. As we will both be co-developing the new system, we need a language we can both work with. He is a bit apprehensive about learning C++, while I tend to feel learning Java would be a waste of my hard-earned C and C++ skills. I'm also leary of using a completely new language on a large project, without understanding all of the nuances of the language--after more than a year of C++, I've still only scratched the surface of the STL, having not yet needed much of its functionality. How much of a learning curve would Java be? * Advocacy of free software. I've not had much to do, since my boss is not a MS fan, and would like to create cross-platform software to avoid being tied to a particular vendor. It's important to be aware of licensing issues and ensure that your co-workers and management understand the GPL/LGPL/BSD licenses etc., so you can comply with them. When writing software using free libraries, you need to be aware of the implications. * The software I write is going to be proprietary, unfortunately, but the skills I learn will surely be useful for future free software development. If you can persuade your company to freely license the software, you may reap long-term benefits from doing so, such as shared development efforts and a long-term future for the software. > Also from the real time point of view, has anybody switched to Linux > from the proprietary RTOSes and experiences in doing so. Sorry, this is well out of my experience. Regards, Roger -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 available on public keyservers From jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk Sat Jul 19 13:50:02 2003 Received: from csunb0.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.144.2]:4717) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19drA2-0005jT-DV for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:50:02 +0100 Received: from csunix.leeds.ac.uk (cserv1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.144.20]) by csunb0.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA08006 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:36:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (cslin120.csunix.comp [129.11.146.120]) by csunix.leeds.ac.uk (8.12.2/) with ESMTP id h6JCa3dl020846 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:36:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (jj@localhost) by cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6JCa3G02609 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:36:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk: jj owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:35:43 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Jackson X-X-Sender: jj@cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk To: WYLUG discussion list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've seen these CF card to IDE converters that allow you to use a CFcard as an IDE disk. I was thinking of uses, and wondering what the rewrite limits are for CFcards - has anyone used them like this. I'm assuming that you basically use it as a readonly boot media and would run your system from ram disks one booted. Anyone any pointers or comments?? Jim From hick@gink.org Sat Jul 19 14:43:31 2003 Received: from stum.gink.org ([62.25.64.84]:51475) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19drzn-0007qH-Ed for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:43:31 +0100 Received: from hick (helo=localhost) by stum.gink.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19drzm-0005LJ-1L for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:43:30 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:43:29 +0100 (BST) From: gARetH baBB To: WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Jim Jackson wrote: > I'm assuming that you basically use it as a readonly boot media and would > run your system from ram disks one booted. Maybe a /tmp, maybe a bit of space for transient logs (though a syslog host would be more sensible) - most of these things are used for stuff like wireless routers, where the only thing it's really doing is network stuff from within the kernel. You could probably arrange things so you didn't even need /tmp, so no ramdisk at all - there are a few read-only dists out there. From linux@kepier.clara.net Sun Jul 20 20:06:12 2003 Received: from zephir.uk.clara.net ([195.8.69.53]:4185) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eJVc-0005n9-59 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:06:12 +0100 Received: from du-069-0884.access.clara.net ([217.158.170.121] helo=kepier.clara.net) by zephir.uk.clara.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19eJVZ-000NzA-00 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:06:11 +0100 Message-ID: <3F1AE8A5.9659FD1C@kepier.clara.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:08:21 +0100 From: Neil Pilgrim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.18hotplug i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: WYLUG discussion list content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Wylug-discuss] VIA 3D acceleration Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just read a note on the DRI lists, that some work has been contributed from VIA to get 3d acceleration on some of their graphics chipsets, possibly including 'xvmc' (motion compensation?) which is included in some. I was looking for this re a possible new laptop (just broke the screen on my old laptop :() and the one in question had a 'proSavageDDR' chipset, but the impression I got was that this also applied to the mini-itx boards, which I know some people are playing with already :) Not that this is ready for prime-time yet, perhaps, but anyhow its good to know that drivers are forthcoming :) -- Neil From jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk Sun Jul 20 21:32:58 2003 Received: from csunb0.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.144.2]:1591) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eKrZ-0007Mn-OW for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:32:57 +0100 Received: from csunix.leeds.ac.uk (cserv1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.144.20]) by csunb0.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA25422; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:28:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (cslin120.csunix.comp [129.11.146.120]) by csunix.leeds.ac.uk (8.12.2/) with ESMTP id h6KKSf0H011146; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:28:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (jj@localhost) by cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6KKSfs18787; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:28:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk: jj owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:28:21 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Jackson X-X-Sender: jj@cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk To: gARetH baBB cc: WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, gARetH baBB wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Jim Jackson wrote: > > > I'm assuming that you basically use it as a readonly boot media and would > > run your system from ram disks one booted. > > Maybe a /tmp, maybe a bit of space for transient logs (though a syslog > host would be more sensible) - most of these things are used for stuff > like wireless routers, where the only thing it's really doing is network > stuff from within the kernel. > > You could probably arrange things so you didn't even need /tmp, so no > ramdisk at all - there are a few read-only dists out there. Interesting. I should have thought of that as I once sysadmined an ATM switch which was based around a Sparc board and Sunos with an "admin" script accessed via an admin account. You weren't meant to know it was unix underneath, but a quick single user boot, and bob's your uncle a root account. They had set the root partition as mounted readonly - with symlinks for changable files, such as /etc/mtab and some config files, to a seperate writeable partition. I presumed this was to prevent "accidental" damage. But a similar setup would be possible, with the changable files in a ramdisk. A couple of extra questions then, what sort of read speed do you get from a CFcards - I assume pretty good, and if they do just like an IDE drive I assume you can partition them etc? Does nobody know the max rewrite limits for these things? Jim From steve@kingsteve.co.uk Sun Jul 20 21:45:11 2003 Received: from 81-86-159-34.dsl.pipex.com ([81.86.159.34]:40018 helo=moe.kingsteve.co.uk) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eL3O-0000L3-S8 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:45:10 +0100 Received: from moe.kingsteve.co.uk (moe.kingsteve.co.uk [192.168.0.10]) by moe.kingsteve.co.uk (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h6KKjDlU029642; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:45:13 +0100 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:45:13 +0100 (BST) From: Steve King To: Jim Jackson cc: gARetH baBB , WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Jim Jackson wrote: > Does nobody know the max rewrite limits for these things? manufacturers say about 1000 times per sector... so pretty bad for /tmp :( Steve From jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk Sun Jul 20 21:52:46 2003 Received: from csunb0.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.144.2]:1738) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eLAj-0001GD-K2 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:52:45 +0100 Received: from csunix.leeds.ac.uk (cserv1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.144.20]) by csunb0.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA02252; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:49:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (cslin120.csunix.comp [129.11.146.120]) by csunix.leeds.ac.uk (8.12.2/) with ESMTP id h6KKnh2W013610; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:49:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (jj@localhost) by cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6KKnhq18882; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:49:43 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk: jj owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:49:23 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Jackson X-X-Sender: jj@cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk To: Steve King cc: gARetH baBB , WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Steve King wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Jim Jackson wrote: > > > Does nobody know the max rewrite limits for these things? > > manufacturers say about 1000 times per sector... so pretty bad for > /tmp :( > So if you use CFcards for cameras, they are good for fully filling with images 1000 times? Interesting I hadn't realised it was as low as that, worth remembering. Definitely needs to used as a readonly boot device then. Jim From steve@kingsteve.co.uk Sun Jul 20 22:03:29 2003 Received: from 81-86-159-34.dsl.pipex.com ([81.86.159.34]:40072 helo=moe.kingsteve.co.uk) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eLL7-0002Rv-La for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:03:29 +0100 Received: from moe.kingsteve.co.uk (moe.kingsteve.co.uk [192.168.0.10]) by moe.kingsteve.co.uk (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h6KL3ZlU029668; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:03:35 +0100 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:03:35 +0100 (BST) From: Steve King To: Jim Jackson cc: gARetH baBB , WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Jim Jackson wrote: > So if you use CFcards for cameras, they are good for fully filling with > images 1000 times? Interesting I hadn't realised it was as low as that, > worth remembering. Definitely needs to used as a readonly boot device > then. I think that's all they are guranteed for. My smartmedia (ok, not identical, but similar) camera has already worn out one SM card, although it had been used in my rio before, so I guess about 3 years of use in total. It chose the most annoying place to die on me too, darned thing! Steve From hick@gink.org Sun Jul 20 22:20:03 2003 Received: from stum.gink.org ([62.25.64.84]:60515) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eLb9-0004Rv-Ij for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:20:03 +0100 Received: from hick (helo=localhost) by stum.gink.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eLb8-0005xe-CC for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:20:02 +0100 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:20:02 +0100 (BST) From: gARetH baBB To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Steve King wrote: > manufacturers say about 1000 times per sector... so pretty bad for Rubbish, couple 100,000 is the usual max erase/write figure per cell quoted. Old EPROMs can even manage a couple of 1000 erases. > /tmp :( We weren't discussing putting /tmp on CF, but on a ramdisc. From hick@gink.org Sun Jul 20 22:27:04 2003 Received: from stum.gink.org ([62.25.64.84]:60524) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eLhw-0005Iw-M0 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:27:04 +0100 Received: from hick (helo=localhost) by stum.gink.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eLhw-00062b-Af for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:27:04 +0100 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:27:04 +0100 (BST) From: gARetH baBB To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Jim Jackson wrote: > A couple of extra questions then, what sort of read speed do you get from > a CFcards - I assume pretty good, and if they do just like an IDE drive I > assume you can partition them etc? Is there a reason to partition them ? Linux will cache stuff in RAM anyway, so the read speed of flash is fairly irrelevant for commonly accessed files, unless you really have little spare RAM - and as I say the boxes you use these things in are rarely doing anything but from within the kernel, so userspace programs/processes are at a minimum. What applicatons do you have in mind ? From david.holder@erion.co.uk Mon Jul 21 09:01:27 2003 Received: from erionltd.demon.co.uk ([80.177.160.174]:1635 helo=mail.otley.erion.co.uk) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eVbq-0003OP-IU for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:01:26 +0100 Received: from emma (emma.otley.erion.co.uk [192.168.1.9]) by mail.otley.erion.co.uk (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6L81NEi002864; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:01:25 +0100 From: "David Holder" To: "'Jim Jackson'" , "'WYLUG discussion list'" Subject: RE: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:03:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c34f5e$9255c300$0901a8c0@emma> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jim, One place to look might be www.locustworld.com. They use CF in their Linux based Mesh box. See here http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/live.locustworld.com/meshboxtechspec.pdf. Regards, David -----Original Message----- From: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk [mailto:wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jim Jackson Sent: 19 July 2003 13:36 To: WYLUG discussion list Subject: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... I've seen these CF card to IDE converters that allow you to use a CFcard as an IDE disk. I was thinking of uses, and wondering what the rewrite limits are for CFcards - has anyone used them like this. I'm assuming that you basically use it as a readonly boot media and would run your system from ram disks one booted. Anyone any pointers or comments?? Jim _______________________________________________ Wylug-discuss mailing list Wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk http://list.wylug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wylug-discuss This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos anti-virus technology From hick@gink.org Mon Jul 21 09:28:19 2003 Received: from stum.gink.org ([62.25.64.84]:49670) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eW1r-0006ZQ-GL for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:28:19 +0100 Received: from hick (helo=localhost) by stum.gink.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eW1q-0003Oz-VA for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:28:18 +0100 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:28:18 +0100 (BST) From: gARetH baBB To: 'WYLUG discussion list' Subject: RE: [Wylug-discuss] compact flash cards used as IDE disk.... In-Reply-To: <000001c34f5e$9255c300$0901a8c0@emma> Message-ID: References: <000001c34f5e$9255c300$0901a8c0@emma> MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, David Holder wrote: [please learn how to quote correctly] > One place to look might be www.locustworld.com. They use CF in their > Linux based Mesh box. See here > http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/live.locustworld.com/meshboxtechspec.pdf. Or http://www.nycwireless.net/pebble/ From jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk Mon Jul 21 10:36:54 2003 Received: from csunb0.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.144.2]:2908) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19eX6D-0001uN-Qf for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:36:53 +0100 Received: from csunix.leeds.ac.uk (cserv1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.144.20]) by csunb0.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA25950 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:31:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (cslin120.csunix.comp [129.11.146.120]) by csunix.leeds.ac.uk (8.12.2/) with ESMTP id h6L9VYf2028922 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:31:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (jj@localhost) by cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6L9VYb21986 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:31:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk: jj owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:31:14 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Jackson X-X-Sender: jj@cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk To: WYLUG discussion list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Wylug-discuss] sheflug email list..... Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, anyone else on the sheflug email list. I was surprised not get any sheflug email since last thursday. It's usually quite busy. I suspected having cocked up my procmail config, but no it was fine. I know there has been a bit of "disagreement" on the list and was wondering what the score was? Jim From richard@sheflug.co.uk Mon Jul 21 14:31:43 2003 Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.231]:48690) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ealS-0005oO-8P for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:31:42 +0100 Received: from bts-0749.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.50.237] helo=sheflug.sheflug.net) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19ealP-0002NJ-00; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:31:40 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sheflug.sheflug.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036D348360; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:35:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sheflug.sheflug.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAE7403A8; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:35:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:35:34 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Ibbotson X-X-Sender: richard@sheflug.sheflug.net To: Jim Jackson Cc: WYLUG discussion list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Re: sheflug email list..... Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jim > I know there has been a bit of "disagreement" on the list and was > wondering what the score was? Everything looks fine over here. The disagreement was about the fact that a fella - who we hardly know - came in to our meeting last month and decided that he was going to tell us that we were going to use IRC in future. Hardly anyone took him seriously and then he started a flame war for which reason he was asked to go away. We don't like that kind of thing. We usually sit down at a meeting and have a discussion about new services. Such a conversation didn't take place and so it's been put to me to ignore him altogether. Thanks Richard From jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk Mon Jul 21 16:06:04 2003 Received: from csunb0.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.144.2]:2577) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ecEl-00039U-Rr for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:06:03 +0100 Received: from csunix.leeds.ac.uk (cserv1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.144.20]) by csunb0.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA17899; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:01:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (cslin120.csunix.comp [129.11.146.120]) by csunix.leeds.ac.uk (8.12.2/) with ESMTP id h6LF1oL5005471; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:01:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (jj@localhost) by cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h6LF1oG32507; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:01:50 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk: jj owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:01:30 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Jackson X-X-Sender: jj@cslin120.csunix.comp.leeds.ac.uk To: Richard Ibbotson cc: WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Re: sheflug email list..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Richard Ibbotson wrote: > > I know there has been a bit of "disagreement" on the list and was > > wondering what the score was? > > Everything looks fine over here. The disagreement was about the fact > that a fella - who we hardly know - came in to our meeting last > month and decided that he was going to tell us that we were going to > use IRC in future. > > Hardly anyone took him seriously and then he started a flame war for > which reason he was asked to go away. We don't like that kind of > thing. We usually sit down at a meeting and have a discussion about > new services. Such a conversation didn't take place and so it's been > put to me to ignore him altogether. > So has there been no sheflug email over the weekend then? If so it's most unusual! I looked on the mail archive and the last email on there was last thursday. It's probably just a summer lull, but I was wondering if anything worse had happenned. Glad all is ok. Jim From richard@sheflug.co.uk Mon Jul 21 16:29:39 2003 Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.231]:56951) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ecbY-0004BJ-QP for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:29:36 +0100 Received: from bts-0238.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.48.238] helo=sheflug.sheflug.net) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19ecbX-0008Nc-00; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:29:35 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sheflug.sheflug.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B76487C5; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:33:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sheflug.sheflug.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC8547F54; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:33:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:33:28 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Ibbotson X-X-Sender: richard@sheflug.sheflug.net To: Jim Jackson Cc: WYLUG discussion list Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Re: sheflug email list..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jim > It's probably just a summer lull, but I was wondering if anything worse > had happened. Glad all is ok. We usually have one about now. So, I wouldn't worry about it. Next meeting is fixed for the 2nd of August. I'll make an announcement soon. I'm off on holiday and so people who are interested have been delegated with the task of running the meeting. Country Bookshop in Bakewell. Great for cycling and walking. Back at Sheffield Hallam University next month. Quite what you are supposed to do with people who are not local Sheffield people and who are from another country who make up their minds that a flame war is okay I don't know. As well as that they decided to do something on their own without consulting the rest of us. Not all that helpful. Thanks Richard From jonathan@algar.org.uk Mon Jul 21 16:31:53 2003 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]:38758) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ecdl-0004Tb-0D for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:53 +0100 Received: from host81-132-187-93.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.132.187.93] helo=localhost) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #23) id 19ecdj-0004BL-00 for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:51 +0100 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:55 +0100 From: Jonathan Algar X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62r) Reply-To: Jonathan Algar X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1128531909.20030721163155@algar.org.uk> To: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Wylug-discuss] Linux + Mathematics Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Studying mathematics at A level, mathematical computation is very critical to my studies. I have a license for mathematica (http://www.mathematica.com) for WINDOWS. I am trying to move towards a pure linux environment, so i can scrap my current duel boot. I am looking for an opensource alternative to mathematica that can process symbolic algebra/calculus. However i have been unable to find a solution of yet. Does anyone here have experience with linux and mathematics and perhaps suggest the best way forward? -- Best regards, Jonathan mailto:jonathan@algar.org.uk http://www.algar.org.uk From Nigel.Metheringham@dev.InTechnology.co.uk Mon Jul 21 16:45:11 2003 Received: from portcullis.intechnology.co.uk ([213.146.131.10]:4106) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ecqc-00067g-Ni for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:45:10 +0100 Received: from [172.16.28.74] (port=58032 helo=sense.intechnology.co.uk) by portcullis.intechnology.co.uk with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.20) id 19ecqb-0003vU-RF; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:45:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [Wylug-discuss] Linux + Mathematics From: Nigel Metheringham To: Jonathan Algar Cc: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk In-Reply-To: <1128531909.20030721163155@algar.org.uk> References: <1128531909.20030721163155@algar.org.uk> Organization: InTechnology plc Message-Id: <1058802309.6199.53.camel@angua.localnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 Date: 21 Jul 2003 16:45:09 +0100 content-transfer-encoding: 7bit content-type: text/plain Sender: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk Errors-To: wylug-discuss-admin@wylug.org.uk X-BeenThere: wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: General discussion of all things WYLUG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 16:31, Jonathan Algar wrote: > Studying mathematics at A level, mathematical computation is very critical > to my studies. I have a license for mathematica > (http://www.mathematica.com) for WINDOWS. I am trying to move > towards a pure linux environment, so i can scrap my current duel boot. Mathematica is available on Linux. I have no idea what the licensing implications of a conversion are. Maple also used to be available on Linux. [I don't have anything to do with this stuff at all any more so just don't know the current state] Octave http://www.octave.org/ is an alternative - although its trying to replace MatLab (I get all these mixed up). It used to be the case that it handled certain specialities very well but was missing some of the more general stuff - again I am very out of date on this (around 8 years). There are a couple more maths environments around - I just tried searching for Mathematic on freshmeat and hit a pile of stuff - try that and see if you get anything useful out. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From ruddell@doctors.org.uk Wed Jul 30 00:39:57 2003 Received: from mail23.messagelabs.com ([193.109.254.99]:56362) by exim-colo-01.whoc.theplanet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 19he4S-00012v-Um for wylug-discuss@wylug.org.uk; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:39:56 +0100 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: ruddell@doctors.org.uk X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-23.messagelabs.com!1059521994!22923 X-StarScan-Version: 5.0.7; banners=doctors.org.uk,-,- Received: (qmail 9993 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2003 23:39:54 -0000 Received: from www2.doctors.org.uk (HELO mail.doctors.org.uk) (212.35.226.52) by server-13.tower-23.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2003 23:39:54 -0000 Received: from doctors.org.uk (hme0-1.mail.doctors.org.uk [212.35.226.53]) by mail.doctors.org.uk (8.12.9/8.11.2) with SMTP id h6TNdsuA019685; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:39:54 +0100 (BST) X-Envelope-From: ruddell@doctors.org.uk From: ruddell@doctors.org.uk Reply-to: ruddell@doctors.org.uk To: ruddell@d